Here's a question for you:

[anigo]

Do you believe in Heaven? Is it "the God (capital G) of Abraham's" heaven? Tell me about it.

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7:30am Musings LONG - part 1 - History

[64tbird.livejournal.com]

I admit it - I haven't given this the focused effort I promised, but I'm counting on my spirituality being a strong enough part of myself that I'll be able to wing it. (No pun intended) (Get it - "wing it" - angels - heaven - ha ha ha) (Okay fine...no more jokes before 8am)

I was raised Episcopalian. (Godblessyou) The church we attended was a big fancy one on Park Avenue in NYC. My grandfather (Pop) wanted us to have God in our lives, turns out later my grandmother (Junie) who was an Irish immigrant was pretending to be Protestant and hiding her Irish Catholic roots. (One child for her, not half a township like the family she'd been born into.) Mom went to appease her father so he would keep supporting her. I went because I was told to, and Sunday school was okay - mostly play time. Then came time for confirmation. It was a huge waste of time. I remember the teacher taking us on a tour of the church and bragging about the "real gold leaf" adorning the top of the pillars and how often it had to be touched up. (This is what the collection plate is for???) The "retreat" was a fiasco, and it was my first exposure to drugs being everywhere - lots of kids had snuck in pot and alchohol. Not to mention, Mom forgot to pick me up at the end of the weekend and a 10 year old Tracy with a big pink paisley suitcase walked through NYC alone, looking for all the world like a runaway. I was confirmed alright - confirmed in the belief that religion was a big scam.

As my grandparents health declined, so did the stock market that had made my grandfather the man who lived in a penthouse on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, from the boy who held two-three jobs in Brooklyn. Seeing as how Pop was supporting my Mother, myself, and all his 9 siblings, it seemed prudent to take me out of private school and put me in a Catholic school two blocks away. Ohmygod! Two years there made me an atheist. Whatever god this was was no god I wanted anything to do with - any god that might enter my life was NOT one that allowed nuns to beat the crap out of students in the front of the classroom. It was 1976, and I'm sure Joseph Hart's home life wasn't all that wonderful or even then his parents would have done something about the bruises that must have covered his back and shoulders. I'll never forget Joseph Hart, and I hope to ... heaven? ... that he turned out okay as an adult. Atheism for me. Because as far as I could tell, religion was about money, partying, and beating children.

Money became available again. And I'd told my Mom about the nun (Sister Mary Alacoque, she must be burning in the deepest hottest pits of hell - if only for what she did to Joseph. I met someone else who attended that school, and she had other Alacoque horror stories). And so Mom set about trying to get me into private school again. All the neighborhood ones were full. I begged to go where Kathrine was going - a Quaker school in the Village. Mom was having none of it, but school after school turned her down until I ended up in my dream school, a week late, and without Katy who had moved to Chicago, but my dream school nonetheless. Here is where my faith was restored.

Part 2 - History of Friends

[64tbird.livejournal.com]

On to Quaker school. I had no idea what a Quaker was, or even that this was a religion. I just knew Katy had gone to school here, and she was my hero. Every morning we had "Meeting" for 10 minutes before general assembly announcements and whatnot. Wednesdays and Fridays, it was "Meeting for Worship" and lasted 30 minutes.

What's Meeting? In 7th and 8th grade, it was the time we all sat in silence while my friends and I used the sign language we were learning in English class to catch up on gossip. In 9th grade, it became a sort of meditation for me, but they had done away with Quaker Studies for some reason just as I was eligible to take it, anything I gained was by sort of eavesdropping and asking questions. The mechanics of the Religious Society of Friends are simple. Sometime in the 1600's in Europe, George Fox became disillusioned with the religion in which he was raised. He tried the alternative. That didn't meet his needs wither. So he tried some other religions, meeting people, talking to them, trying to understand how they felt anything from these religious leaders on the pulpits telling them what to think and do. None of it was satisfying to him; not Judiasm, not Buddhism, nor any other Eastern or Western organized religion. So he created his own.

Over the course of his travels, studies and considerations, he had made friends with other folks as disillusioned as himself. They came to the conclusion that they needed to cut out the middle man - the priest/minister/rabbi/etc didn't touch them, didn't move them, didn't inspire them. They needed a more direct line to God (in whatever form). So this group of people from diverse backgrounds decided to have a Meeting for Worship; They would gather and sit in silence, waiting for the Holy Spirit, in whatever form, to speak directly to them, then they would stand and share the message in the room of silent people. Thus began the Religious Society of Friends. What makes them "Quakers" is something I've experienced myself - when sitting in silence, and getting a message/inspiration, I have actually quaked, or "shaken with religious fervor" as it's been described. It's the most amazing feeling when the thought hits and it's inspiring, and I start to tremble with the excitement of it, and without even knowing it, I am standing up, speaking. It hasn't happened in a long long time, but I know it's real. My first "Quaking" was in 11th grade. No one had ever spoken in Meeting that I knew of, and after I'd spoken, it became more frequent. It was wonderful. People sharing spiritual insights and thoughts. Something had been aware we were listening, and took advantage to touch us.

There are some small central rules or guidelines. 20+ years later, here are the ones I've taken with me and held onto:
- Meeting can be anywhere, anytime, with anyone or no one, because;
- No one day or time is any more or less "holy" than any other day or time
- To me, Meeting is not closed to any God/Goddess/Spirit/Muse. Meeting is about listening and receiving
- Meeting is not about power or money or goals or competition

If you go to a Meeting House, the basic rules are:
- Be on time or don't enter the Meeting room until the children come out for First Day school (usually 10-15 minutes into Meeting) Once the doors are closed, in order not to disturb those inside, it's just not nice to be going in and out of the Meeting room. I usually eat on my way to Meeting so my tummy doesn't growl, and go potty before I go to the room, and make sure I have tissues handy for sneezes or messages that might cause tears.
- At the end of meeting (usually one hour) a designated person will start handshakes and greetings, where people turn to one another and shake hands or hug, say good morning, etc.
- Now is time to leave if you want, or stay and be prepared to stand to introduce yourself, then listen to announcements of events, and some version of "Joys and Sorrows".
- After Meeting, Fellowship. Coffee and tea and whatever until people drift away. Usually once a month is a big potluck lunch.

So - what is my version of heaven.... do I believe? Well, next post shall tell all....now that you have the history of me and the history of Quakers.

Part 3 - Tracy's Meaning of Life

[64tbird.livejournal.com]

It was, of course, in Meeting that I reached these conclusions.

Oh - and I'm an idiot - the most important part of Quakerism to me is the aspect of non-violence, because the Spirit is all of us and everything; when we harm one person we harm everyone. Think about that a while, the ripples a hurtful word or action cause from the injured person to their friends and family, and their friends and family... Then think of the implications of a positive thought or action.

Sidenote - not all Meetings are inspiring. Abd sometimes, other people's messages that seem specific to themselves can be generalized and often address exactly the issues in my life that are of present concern.

One such message was delivered just after I filed for divorce. A fellow in Meeting had just come back from Florida where his grandmother was dying. As he witnessed his mother caring for her mother much as a child, bathing, dressing, feeding, and helping her to bed it occurred to him that there was a cycle here; a cycle of Mother caring for helpless infant, raising and nurturing the helpless infant, then when that child is grown the cycle turns in a way that the child is now caring for the basic needs of the parent who is now helpless with the fagility of extreme old age.

That's the simple version. For me, I knew there was something more complicated and more profound. I thought about my own mother, and then my kids, their father and his mother. I thought about grandparents. I thought about the gifts of life we'd all been given and what we had done with those gifts, and what reward might be received when we'd done good things over negative ones.

Heaven? But wait... what key turns the lock in those pearly gates? Gates? Heaven has gates? I don't think so. I think Life is it's own force. The messages we get are from one another, from the energy our life creates and puts into the world, which is affected by the energy we get and what we do with it... So Heaven? No. I don't believe there is some "place" we go where things are all pearly and perfect.

I think of the Boddhisatva's, two who achieved "Nirvana", perfect spiritual enlightenment, and refused to enter Heaven until the last blade of grass has gone before them. Well, if we've all achieved Nirvana, what need do we have of going someplace Else? We'd have it here on Earth, wouldn't we?

I guess I believe in Reincarnation. With that in mind, and the thought of the cycles of life and family, here is my version of why we are here.

We are here to make things better. To gently break the negative harmful cycles and teach our children positive healthy ways to live, aware of the spirituality in themselves and the world around them. If the name Jesus helps, so be it. If the idea of Heaven helps, fantastic. As long as those things are not used to intimidate, scare, manipulate, or otherwise hurt people, they are fine with me. I just have a bigger picture, where all paths of Light lead to the same place of Peace. Wherever that may be.

Did any of this make sense? Did I answer your question?

Hello

[shmuelisms.livejournal.com]

64tbird asked me to take a look at this question. She seems to think I can answer it. She has such funny ideas some times.

I will by way of "Limited warranty" and introduction say that I'm a practicing Orthodox Jew, so whatever I say, will be radically different from the classic Western POV, and no, we Jews aren't as bigoted as the Church, in thinking that only Jews will go to heaven - so welcome :-p (I also perused your LJ a bit, so I think I also know what brought this question on. Sigh. Compassion)

[ <Mini-Rant>

I know you meant no harm by using the term "God of Abraham", and I am after-all an uninvited guest in your Journal, but I thought it best to point out that many Jews find such terms as "God of Abraham", "Abrahamic Faiths (http://www.livejournal.com/users/swisscelt/39832.html?thread=142488#t142488)" or the more common "Judeo-Christian (http://www.livejournal.com/users/xiphias/86040.html)" extremely offensive [shallow and ignorant]. Both of those links are to [somewhat heavy] discussions I recently had with two LJ friends regarding those class of terms. This is not to say I was offended, but to "educate" people on this issue.

</Mini-Rant> ]

I think, in fact that my answer to your question might illustrate this nicely, as our description of Heaven/Hell is rather different from Christian dogma. This will be long-winded and round-about, because that's how my mind works, and Jewish Thought is very non-linear. Enough dodging the actual question ;-) ...

Heaven - Considering that being dead is an entry requirement, and having left the base-animal body behind, this state of existence is entirely of the spirit (no cute bodies with wings ;-) playing the harp, no feasts or such either). We are told that all that will "remain" to "visually" "represent" us is the "face". This doesn't translate well into English because we view the face in the exact opposite way of it's aspect in English. In English "face" is the OUTSIDE of the object, a layer and mask worn on the outside to protect. While in Jewish Thought the Hebrew word for the "body part called 'face'" is {Pahnim} which means "inside", in that our [entire] face projects who we are. It's not for nothing that we have universal cross-cultural expressions such as "... looks like a crook".

BECAUSE of this major shift, between life and "life after death", in that we are currently locked into a physical world with physically oriented & limited senses. We can't possibly comprehend what existence as a bodiless entity is like. So any possible explanation would be metaphorical at best! Because of this we more humble [?], less "marketing oriented", Jews are reluctant to even try. Also unlike Christian dogma, we verily try to avoid the "be good" [ ==> "be saved" ] ==> "go to heaven" hype that Christians so adore [We Jews "do good", not because this is "good" but because G-d commands this (but that, and the related statement that "Judaism" isn't really a religion at all, is a completely separate [long] discussion)]. One such explanation is that:

in heaven we will "bask in the glory" of the Light that is G-d, and that we will be given/able to comprehend G-d's Great Plan to the ability inherent in the level of righteousness we have achieved in our lives (this is not a quote).

This "basking" is said to be the ultimate pleasure, the "ultimate good" that G-d can give us. That any bodily pleasure is so pallid in comparison, as to make our bodily pleasures look pathetic. But what exactly that means in terms that a corporally bound soul can understand, is currently beyond me, and probably inherently incomprehensible.

We Jews do our best to not fear /dwell-on problems /issues /questions that are beyond us in this life,
so why would I worry myself about a plane of existence so totally beyond this one?

I hope my answer helps you, at least somewhat.

Hmmmm

[64tbird.livejournal.com]

Really interesting - the part that I totally hear is the face description. I often say that I see people inside out - which is to say that I seem to see who they are and I can't give you a physical description for my life. Even close friends. Even myself. (I posted in my own journal about catching sight of myself in the mirror during a migraine, and being surprised that I didn't look like a hag out of a Disney movie with purple skin, wrinkles, and bulging green bloodshot eyes, 'cos that;s how I felt.)

I may have to read your post again, and remind myself not to try to read more into the words than is there.

Thanks, Shmuel.

Re: Hello

[64tbird.livejournal.com]

Oh - and I didn't think you could Answer the question so much as share a perspective that I personally find interesting. I asked you because you are articulate, and because I like you and trust you and I trusted you to be able to offer something that might help Gina see things from other perspectives. :-)

Which is making me think about conversations with Jette and cultural blending in America and I think I need to go to my journal and pose some questions of my own...

Re: Hello

[anigo.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your very insightful answer and for correcting me in my incorrect use of terminology. Believe me when I say there was no offence intended.

I apologize for not responding to your post earlier, but I haven't had the time to properly read it, let alone properly respond. As it stands I only have a few more minutes before puppy's awake and I need to start defending the furniture again.

Hope to hear more from you in the future.